Larissa Russell 0:08
Hello everyone, Larissa Russell of Creative U Healing and today I have with me Jacob Nordby. Jacob is a celebrated author, speaker and visionary artist who ignites the creative potential within individuals. He describes himself as a fascinating human who believes in love, laughter and the restoration of joy. Love that. Known for his best selling books, including the latest book, The Creative Cure, Jacob seeks to expand the meaning of creativity as he is convinced that everyone is creative and that this energy is meant to fill every part of life with aliveness, I fully believe that as well. Welcome, Jacob.
Jacob Nordby 0:50
Thank you so much, Larissa. I'm not sure who wrote that bio. I don't think I would have written visionary artist but
Larissa Russell 1:00
but you know, bios are all about, like, the things we probably wouldn't say about ourselves. So,
Jacob Nordby 1:06
yes, I'm so glad to be here. I was on your site ahead of this. And I just love the work you're doing in this world. Hope. It's amazing.
Larissa Russell 1:15
Thank you. Thank you. You're really excited. We're doing a healing with love Summit coming up soon. And about creativity, but also just diversity and, and sharing. So I'm excited about that one. But that being said, for those who may not know you, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do your version
Jacob Nordby 1:39
It feels like such a long story, as I'm sure yours is, too. You know, when I was 10 years old, I went out, I went out in the living room and said, I want to be a writer and my parents, unlike a lot of people. My parents were very supportive. And they said, that'll be amazing. And then they said, now it's time to brush your teeth and go to bed. And I promptly forgot for about the next 30 years more than 30 years, that early dream Larissa and found myself at 34 in the middle of a outwardly successful life, and also waking up every morning at three terrified and wondering why all of the things that I had created, didn't feel good. Didn't I wasn't in alignment, you know, and long story short, but I ended up in a shamanic initiation. I didn't know what a Shaman was in 2007. And that really rattled me and showed me how far off of alignment I was. And the financial meltdown of 2008. Nine came along and wiped everything out. And I had a chance to start all the way over it sounds tidy and nice, but it wasn't it was really scary. Yeah, so the last 15 years or so however many years that's been my math brain isn't working real well have been this long process of creative recovery and healing and all of that. And so I just feel so grateful now to be sharing as you do. You know, what I feel like it's such an essential experience, which is reconnecting with our inner creative selves and expressing that in our lives. It is the medicine as I see it that this world needs and that we individually need, you know. Yeah,
Larissa Russell 3:21
yeah. One of the things I hear often is I'm not creative. Yes. And, you know, we're, we're humans, we're creative, that that's innate. And but I think it's the fear of showing that creativity because it gets shut down in our, our culture, society. What are ways that you help people explore that more?
Jacob Nordby 3:44
Man, you just said everything. Like, oh, I'm like this getting so juicy already. I want to read something actually a fellow Canadian. Do you know Takapow Turner? Yes,
Larissa Russell 3:55
yeah.
Okay, not personally, but yeah, yeah.
Jacob Nordby 3:59
Yeah, no, in my experience she's a bit of a hermit. I just love her work. I just got back from this writing retreat in Santa Fe with Anne Lamott. And Julia Cameron and Sark. And I read this on stage. And it's something I read so often, but just a little bit here. And I feel like this speaks to what we're talking about. She says, I believe we have more than enough creativity to solve the problems of our times, but we have to make a perilous trek into the wilderness within to reclaim it. There is the stand of undeveloped Jugend jungle a place of indigeneity within each of us that can never be domesticated. And it goes on from there but she says few make the trek into this creative wild because the path requires great vulnerability. To come into our true or in originality. We must surrender the layers of numbness we use to protect our hearts. So when you ask the work that I do, I feel like that's a lot of it. Larissa is making it safe to begin putting down those As layers of numbness, because as I see it, our creativity is it's the lifeforce energy, it is our essential nature. And we get shut down early in life, by socialisation, by traumatic experiences by the fear of rejection, like you just said, it's not that we don't have it is that we become afraid to show it. And so helping people and myself to go through this process over and over again of laying down the armour in safe spaces, and then making it safer to take some of that back out into the world. Mm
Larissa Russell 5:35
hmm. Yeah. And, and the whole idea of vulnerability, right, is, it's not even something we really discuss. Because even the the concept seems too scary. And so what I, what I personally try to do is to lead people into expressing, and maybe not even realising they're being vulnerable. Not so not so like open about it. They do recognise it, we can get into that deeper, but in the beginning, it's more like, let's, let's just see what happens. Let's just allow, and I know writing is your passion. And how, how difficult was it for you to become truly vulnerable in your writing?
Jacob Nordby 6:21
Very difficult. Larissa, and I want to just rewind just for a moment, because you said so much good right there. I feel like words get in the way so much in our over left brain developed cultures. We focus on concepts like creativity, like vulnerability, and I love to do as you're saying, like, strip that back and go, let's forget about the word, let's just do these things. And then maybe come along later and say, You're being creative right now? No, really, this is what it is. Yeah, that's what it is. So for me, I feel like I was given that tremendous gift of having everything turned upside down and broken and shaken out, you know, back in, 08/09. Because I didn't have a choice. But to be vulnerable at that point. I think stepping into it intentionally can be a lot more difficult. I was just literally broken. And vulnerability was just a way of life. And so learning how then to invite people into that without necessarily needing the shattering experiences, I feel like that's a really big job.
Larissa Russell 7:27
I think it's a really important thing that you just said there too, you know, because often we move into our creativity, our dreams, our passions, because of something big, that makes us vulnerable. And if we could do that, without needing that big thing, maybe we could, you know, bypass that big thing. Because I think Spirit works with that, right? Like, just we need to move forward and you're not doing it. So we're gonna put this big thing in the way. So you need to do that. And as you open up into your own vulnerability, how easy was it then to recognise that you needed to do something different? As opposed to I just need to fix what's broken over here?
Jacob Nordby 8:16
Yes, I wouldn't say easy, but it felt necessary, Larissa and knowing that, you know, in recovery movements, they have the phrase, my best thinking got me here. So every time I would catch myself trying to go back to previous ways of being in the world, I realised that was the armour that I was wearing. And it did not serve me. So I need to be willing to step into the unknown into uncertainty into awkwardness. And on the positive side, much like many wisdom traditions teach the beginner's mind, how can I go back? My children are now all moved out of the house recently, actually. But we've talked and I have told them that I had the great benefit of breaking and starting over with them when they were before they were coming of age. And so we really grew up together. And because of that, I didn't have fixed notions of how the world was or how they should behave. And I don't know that I wouldn't have come to that on my own. It was that experience. And so I feel that I feel that for one thing, I'm straying away from the question you asked.
Larissa Russell 9:24
No, that that's perfectly fine. I think the flow of conversation is an important part. And asking questions is just a way to open the door to what needs to be said. Yeah. So not to worry about that at all. I think, you know, as we was as we work with people to uncover what they need to explore, it can be really tricky. And I know I've been talking to a number of healers and creatives lately about this resistance that we're facing right now with the polarisation in the world. And people really want to move into creativity, intuition, love all of the healing all of these things. But it's like, almost too scary, like you're bucking the system. Do you have any? I don't know, tip seems like, too. But, you know, ways that people can help themselves start to move forward to what they really want.
Jacob Nordby 10:29
Wow, Larissa, the poles, as you just talked about those, the magnetic pole of either pole has grown so much more intense over the last five or six years it feels to me or maybe 10 years, I don't know, but it feels so intense right now. And I feel the pull myself, you know. And I went through a transformational leadership programme earlier this year and got the deep reminder of such an old phrase that says, What you resist persists. If I don't want more war in the world, if I go out and war against war, I'm actually creating more war. And so you know, and that sounds very simplistic, but it's really deep work. And as I add to your question, what I would suggest is ask the question, How can I be curious, in the middle of this tension? In the middle of this, feeling, this feeling of urgency? How can I be curious? How can I even in the safety of my own space, not trying to take this out into the world and change the world? How can I? How can I be curious about what I need? How I can serve? What life is calling me to? And I find that whenever I feel that heightened anxiety and getting into Oh, no, I need to do something is world's falling apart? If I'm willing to take a few deep breaths and sit quietly, and ask some some curious questions, I offer this in my creative self journal practice. Three questions, what do I need? How do I feel right now? What do I need right now? And then what would I love? Or how would I love to feel? What would I love to create? Depending upon the situation? Those questions often bring me back into that polyvagal green zone into the feeling of groundedness and centeredness and creativity in which solutions can come forward? So that's probably one very simple piece of advice would be take a deep breath and ask myself, ask oneself in the middle of this situation? How can I be curious? What's needed for me right now? What do I need right now?
Larissa Russell 12:40
I love that, because I think there's so much of I must pick aside or I must, I must do this thing, because it's like, no, what, what do I need to be curious? Or do I need to find the answers for me? Right and not? And not just follow? Because,
Jacob Nordby 12:59
and Larissa, I would, I would love to ask you a question about this. Because I, I say that, and I live it, I teach it. And I know that there's, there's a real need and calling at times for the firebrands for the people who do come from that deep centred soul centred place, and they speak out. So I'm not suggesting that we should turn our voices down. So I'm curious, how do you balance those?
Larissa Russell 13:25
Well, you know, it's, it's a real struggle, because, as someone who who knows, who has a connection with Spirit, who is very intuitive, like I really feel that within, I don't always listen. Right? And so I can be really good at at sharing with other people. I use my voice a lot to help people move towards what they need. Do I always do it for my own self? No, and I'm really working on why Why am I not always doing it for my own self? When I know that that's the path. And I don't have all the answers yet. But a lot of it comes down to from my own self is ego, right? And how it gets in the way because of the society we live in, because of the direction we've been pointed in. And so, and I don't mean ego as in Vanity, but although that might be a small part of it. Ego as in not listening and needing to it's not the appearance, it's the show up in a certain expected way. Right. And bucking the system is hard. It's hard. And so I did that answer the question.
Jacob Nordby 14:59
I didn't mean to ambush you I, I genuinely love conversation. And of course, I have a lot to say. But I love to hear. And I sense that you are very much in alignment with a, you know, what is the right action here? What is intuition actually speaking, or calling me forward into and I believe in manifestos I believe in the big fiery voices and my God, we need them. And we need them to be we need each one who feels called, we need that to come from the deep inner work. That means whatever comes forth as medicine.
Larissa Russell 15:34
Yeah, yeah. And I think not enough people are recognising their voice. And their part in that. Right. And so that comes with being vulnerable, as we started, as we started with, yeah, the one question I do ask every guest is, what does healing with creativity mean to you?
Jacob Nordby 16:00
So, my God, I love that question. For me, because I feel that creativity is the expression, it's the expression of that vital spark, that we have the Divine Spark, whatever you want to call it. To me, that is much like the soul as I see it, it can't be damaged, it can't be destroyed our connection to it. And you talked about the ego just a moment ago, and I love that you didn't treat the ego as an enemy. It's like a body, we as long as we're here, we're each going to have an ego. And learning to work with it better. But the ego self that we create, to protect ourselves and to operate in the world. Often, that connection to our soul, self to our inner creative self gets so stretched out and full of static and damaged. That to me, that's the only thing that needs to be healed is the connection. And so for me, it's so important that I don't see them as siloed experiences healing and creativity I think a lot of people do, Larissa, like, Okay, I'm gonna heal, and then once I'm healed, then I'll start creating or I'm going to create and healing kind of takes to me they're completely interlocked. You can't say we heal, to create, and we create, to heal. And whether that and by the way, I think that a lot of people make the mistake, and I'm sure you've heard this so many times. I'm not that creative. I heard that from my brother years ago, when I was writing the creative cure, first draft, and we were walking through this office that we had built together. And then he had had been running and there's this tech, and it's all this stuff. And he looked at me and said, I'm just not that creative. And then we walked into his office, the rest and he sat down in front of his desk, and he had three screens, and they all look like The Matrix to me, all this code. But when he sat down, his posture changed, it was like watching a pianist sit down at the grand piano. And I watched him go into flow state almost instantaneously, he forgot I was there and put my hand on his shoulder. I said, Brother, it's like watching Mozart work on composition to see you at your desk right now. I said this to me, as I see this one of your creative expressions, he looked up he's ever known. I've never thought of it that way. So if I can help people see that healing that connection means that we begin to see all of life as an opportunity for artfulness Whether it's cooking that dinner or cleaning up the back patio and planting flowers, or whatever it is, whatever it is, it can be artful, it can be creative.
Larissa Russell 18:20
I absolutely agree with that. And I talked about it a lot, because creativity is in everything we do. And, and I joke because I paint, but I also love spreadsheets, and I colour code them, I do all the things and they just make me so happy. So I can get into that same state in a spreadsheet as I can in with my paint. So, you know, it's very, very similar. And many people want to think, oh, it's like writing a best seller or playing in a symphony or, you know, whatever it is, painting a masterpiece, but it's, it's everything we do. It is who we are, to be creative. Yeah, yeah,
Jacob Nordby 19:03
I like to, I like to compare it to like a tree, full of sap, you know, if that sap stops flowing through one of the limbs or like our bodies, if blood stops flowing through any part of our body, that part starts to atrophy and die. And so as I see it, one of my missions is to help people open those channels back up into every part of their lives, because that's what being in true health means. And by the way, healing. Sometimes we forget what's you know, the hard work and the painful work of healing. The result of that process is health. It's joy. And I think it can win when anyone in begins to really embark on a healing journey. It can just feel like oh my god, this is an endless, painful experience, and I can relate to that. But if we can remember that the real outcome of that is joy, its health, you know?
Larissa Russell 19:54
Yeah, yeah. And not even needing to set out Like you said, to heal, right, but when we can move into that space of creativity and what that is for us, the healing comes with that. Healing comes. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think I could ask 100 more questions. But is there any final thoughts before we go today that you'd like to share with our listeners?
Jacob Nordby 20:26
I would just like to ask unless you're driving or doing something dangerous if you can pause for a moment and just close your eyes and put your hand in your heart and take a breath with me. When you take that breath, allow your attention to notice the beating of your heart. And every beat of that heart, to me is evidence of who you really are of your creative nature. And I just want to say that the more that you tune into that, and then share it with yourself and your family and your friends in your society, your community, the more you become medicine in this world, thank you for being here.
Larissa Russell 21:05
Love that. Thank you might have to incorporate something like that at the end of the episode, I do, I want to thank you so much for being here today. And we will have links so that people know where to find you and how to how to get your offerings. And I think you have a lot to offer the world and so I want to just thank you again for being here today.
Jacob Nordby 21:29
It's a real honour and when this episode is ready, I'll be so delighted to share with everyone thank you for the work, you're doing Larissa.
Larissa Russell 21:35
Thank you. Thank you. To our listeners. We will see you again next time. And in the meantime, we wish for you amazingly creative days.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
